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	<title>Comments on: [process] Another shot at thinking about the Other</title>
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	<link>http://www.jlake.com/2009/01/08/process-another-shot-at-thinking-about-the-other/</link>
	<description>Jay Lake&#039;s Official Web Site</description>
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		<title>By: Links for 8th January 2009 &#124; Velcro City Tourist Board</title>
		<link>http://www.jlake.com/2009/01/08/process-another-shot-at-thinking-about-the-other/comment-page-1/#comment-23140</link>
		<dc:creator>Links for 8th January 2009 &#124; Velcro City Tourist Board</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Jan 2011 15:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jlake.com/?p=6962#comment-23140</guid>
		<description>[...] Another shot at thinking about the Other &#8211; Jay Lake [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Another shot at thinking about the Other &#8211; Jay Lake [...]</p>
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		<title>By: RaceFail ‘09 and me &#171; will shetterly had a blog</title>
		<link>http://www.jlake.com/2009/01/08/process-another-shot-at-thinking-about-the-other/comment-page-1/#comment-6367</link>
		<dc:creator>RaceFail ‘09 and me &#171; will shetterly had a blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 06:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jlake.com/?p=6962#comment-6367</guid>
		<description>[...] January 8. Jay Lake wrote Another shot at thinking about the Other. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] January 8. Jay Lake wrote Another shot at thinking about the Other. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: [personal&#124;writing] On being a public person &#124; jlake.com</title>
		<link>http://www.jlake.com/2009/01/08/process-another-shot-at-thinking-about-the-other/comment-page-1/#comment-2176</link>
		<dc:creator>[personal&#124;writing] On being a public person &#124; jlake.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jlake.com/?p=6962#comment-2176</guid>
		<description>[...] in the blogosphere has been identified by some observers as originating with this post of mine: [ jlake.com &#124; LiveJournal ]. Since the discussion started, one of the nicer things I&#8217;ve seen said about [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in the blogosphere has been identified by some observers as originating with this post of mine: [ jlake.com | LiveJournal ]. Since the discussion started, one of the nicer things I&#8217;ve seen said about [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kai Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.jlake.com/2009/01/08/process-another-shot-at-thinking-about-the-other/comment-page-1/#comment-2109</link>
		<dc:creator>Kai Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 05:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jlake.com/?p=6962#comment-2109</guid>
		<description>&quot;Write what you know&quot; is for beginners.  It&#039;s a starting place, not an ending place.

Writing the other requires knowledge and empathy.  It&#039;s possible to learn both.  One of the pleasures of being a human is the ability to learn from another person&#039;s experience in addition to your own.  

Sure, I sometimes get tweaked when my own cultural stuff is appropriated, but I have no right to do so.  It&#039;s not like it was an entitlement gifted to me at birth.  Somebody made it up in the first place!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Write what you know&#8221; is for beginners.  It&#8217;s a starting place, not an ending place.</p>
<p>Writing the other requires knowledge and empathy.  It&#8217;s possible to learn both.  One of the pleasures of being a human is the ability to learn from another person&#8217;s experience in addition to your own.  </p>
<p>Sure, I sometimes get tweaked when my own cultural stuff is appropriated, but I have no right to do so.  It&#8217;s not like it was an entitlement gifted to me at birth.  Somebody made it up in the first place!</p>
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		<title>By: Deireanach</title>
		<link>http://www.jlake.com/2009/01/08/process-another-shot-at-thinking-about-the-other/comment-page-1/#comment-2105</link>
		<dc:creator>Deireanach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 22:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jlake.com/?p=6962#comment-2105</guid>
		<description>I disagree with the &#039;write what/who you know&#039; meme, although for reasons I haven&#039;t seen stated yet. Jaws&#039; comments come closest.

If I were to only write the non-Other, with the settings of my stories reflecting only the make-up of the people in my life, my work would be filled with middle-class white people, with a smattering of non-whites and other classes, mostly as background characters. However, considering most of my stories center around three or fewer characters, non-whites could easily disappear entirely.

Getting some of the details wrong is, in my opinion, a lesser crime than erasing the existence of the Other entirely. Besides, the Other is more interesting than I am; after all, I&#039;ve already been there, done that, when it comes to my own native culture.

A tangent: is the insistence of some people that writers only write the culture they know like the insistence of some people that we should fix all problems (at home, in the city, on Earth, ...) rather than (go to work, build a ring road, go to Mars, ...)? It seems to me to be rooted in the same sorts of fears: don&#039;t make new mistakes/waste valuable effort when there are old mistakes to correct/situations needing attention already under your nose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with the &#8216;write what/who you know&#8217; meme, although for reasons I haven&#8217;t seen stated yet. Jaws&#8217; comments come closest.</p>
<p>If I were to only write the non-Other, with the settings of my stories reflecting only the make-up of the people in my life, my work would be filled with middle-class white people, with a smattering of non-whites and other classes, mostly as background characters. However, considering most of my stories center around three or fewer characters, non-whites could easily disappear entirely.</p>
<p>Getting some of the details wrong is, in my opinion, a lesser crime than erasing the existence of the Other entirely. Besides, the Other is more interesting than I am; after all, I&#8217;ve already been there, done that, when it comes to my own native culture.</p>
<p>A tangent: is the insistence of some people that writers only write the culture they know like the insistence of some people that we should fix all problems (at home, in the city, on Earth, &#8230;) rather than (go to work, build a ring road, go to Mars, &#8230;)? It seems to me to be rooted in the same sorts of fears: don&#8217;t make new mistakes/waste valuable effort when there are old mistakes to correct/situations needing attention already under your nose.</p>
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		<title>By: Fábio</title>
		<link>http://www.jlake.com/2009/01/08/process-another-shot-at-thinking-about-the-other/comment-page-1/#comment-2103</link>
		<dc:creator>Fábio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jlake.com/?p=6962#comment-2103</guid>
		<description>Jay, I think every voice counts. Ian McDonald wrote a book with Brazilian protagonists, and he did a very nice job capturing some of our cultural traits and ways of thinking. He didn´t get it right every single time, but he got it right most of the time, and this is great.

Here in Brazil we have the same problem. When Ben Bova wrote &quot;Mars&quot;, he implied that we have Indians walking on the streets of our major cities. Unfortunately, that is very far from truth. Native Brazilians are mostly dispossessed people, living in reservations or in slums on the outskirts of the North Region cities, near the Amazon. (Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo, for instance, are approximately 4000 km from Manaus, capital of the state of Amazonas)

As historian Homi Bhabha says, it is much easier to talk from our cultural location. But that is for historical reports. For us writers, as much as it is for actors (I´m a writer now but I was an actor for the theatre a decade ago), the question is &quot;how can we put ourselves in The Other´s shoes?&quot; For we must. Otherwise, how can we tell stories?

Even though Brazil is a country full of very good writers from all walks of life, we are still afraid of doing that, however. Only from the 1980s on we are beginning to have books published by Afro-Brazilian writers, and a small handful of books (mostly YA books) by Native Brazilian writers. Unfortunately, most of these books are still restricted to the retelling of mythos (the Native Brazilian examples) and the life in favelvas (the Afro-Brazilian writers). We still don´t have black and Indian SF/Fantasy/Horror writers in Brazil yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay, I think every voice counts. Ian McDonald wrote a book with Brazilian protagonists, and he did a very nice job capturing some of our cultural traits and ways of thinking. He didn´t get it right every single time, but he got it right most of the time, and this is great.</p>
<p>Here in Brazil we have the same problem. When Ben Bova wrote &#8220;Mars&#8221;, he implied that we have Indians walking on the streets of our major cities. Unfortunately, that is very far from truth. Native Brazilians are mostly dispossessed people, living in reservations or in slums on the outskirts of the North Region cities, near the Amazon. (Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo, for instance, are approximately 4000 km from Manaus, capital of the state of Amazonas)</p>
<p>As historian Homi Bhabha says, it is much easier to talk from our cultural location. But that is for historical reports. For us writers, as much as it is for actors (I´m a writer now but I was an actor for the theatre a decade ago), the question is &#8220;how can we put ourselves in The Other´s shoes?&#8221; For we must. Otherwise, how can we tell stories?</p>
<p>Even though Brazil is a country full of very good writers from all walks of life, we are still afraid of doing that, however. Only from the 1980s on we are beginning to have books published by Afro-Brazilian writers, and a small handful of books (mostly YA books) by Native Brazilian writers. Unfortunately, most of these books are still restricted to the retelling of mythos (the Native Brazilian examples) and the life in favelvas (the Afro-Brazilian writers). We still don´t have black and Indian SF/Fantasy/Horror writers in Brazil yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://www.jlake.com/2009/01/08/process-another-shot-at-thinking-about-the-other/comment-page-1/#comment-2080</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 05:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jlake.com/?p=6962#comment-2080</guid>
		<description>@2 Nisi --  In fact, I was thinking of what you guys do, but managed to utterly space linking it.  What&#039;s the best place to do so?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@2 Nisi &#8212;  In fact, I was thinking of what you guys do, but managed to utterly space linking it.  What&#8217;s the best place to do so?</p>
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		<title>By: Nisi Shawl</title>
		<link>http://www.jlake.com/2009/01/08/process-another-shot-at-thinking-about-the-other/comment-page-1/#comment-2079</link>
		<dc:creator>Nisi Shawl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 04:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jlake.com/?p=6962#comment-2079</guid>
		<description>Jay, I&#039;m wondering if you capitalized your mention of &quot;Writing the Other&quot; because you were referring to the book and workshop by that title that I created with Cindy Ward?  If so, that&#039;s great, and you can also include a link to the book&#039;s/workshop&#039;s website.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay, I&#8217;m wondering if you capitalized your mention of &#8220;Writing the Other&#8221; because you were referring to the book and workshop by that title that I created with Cindy Ward?  If so, that&#8217;s great, and you can also include a link to the book&#8217;s/workshop&#8217;s website.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaws</title>
		<link>http://www.jlake.com/2009/01/08/process-another-shot-at-thinking-about-the-other/comment-page-1/#comment-2074</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaws</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jlake.com/?p=6962#comment-2074</guid>
		<description>What I think you&#039;ve hit upon is one of the distinctions between &quot;political correctness&quot; and actual cultural sensitivity: The misuse of surface characteristics as proxies for &quot;visible authenticity.&quot; That&#039;s functionally the same thing as any other kind of bigotry, because it uses those surface characteristics as an inherent denial of individuality. 

Flip things around for a moment: Does Thomas Sowell have any right to have his comments on race relations in America &#151; and, in particular, relations among social strata disproportionately composed of racial elements (e.g., the urban poor) &#151; taken seriously by anyone &lt;i&gt;just because he is melaninically enhanced&lt;/i&gt;? Or, as a closer question, how about multimillionaire Al Sharpton, who at least maintains some personal contact with the urban poor who share his ethnicity? I personally think the answer to both questions is &quot;no,&quot; but I base that on the cognitive dissonance between what these two individuals say and do, on the one hand, and reputable scholarship on those issues on the other.

In short, visible authenticity is just a means of cavalierly dismissing competitors in the current buyer&#039;s market of publishing and public discourse. There are more authors and would-be pundits than our current communications infrastructure can distribute to their satisfaction (and I don&#039;t just mean the editorial process, either...). Whether proponents of visible authenticity admit it to themselves or not, the meme fulfills the same function as any other mindless means of excluding potential competitors from the market, and doesn&#039;t require awareness of its &quot;rational actor&quot; foundations to work that way.

&lt;sarcasm&gt; Besides &#151; these days, is there a difference between &quot;John Updike&quot; (IMNSHO, one of the most overrated of the current generation of American &lt;i&gt;auteurs blanc-gris&lt;/i&gt;) and &quot;unpublished&quot;? &lt;/sarcasm&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I think you&#8217;ve hit upon is one of the distinctions between &#8220;political correctness&#8221; and actual cultural sensitivity: The misuse of surface characteristics as proxies for &#8220;visible authenticity.&#8221; That&#8217;s functionally the same thing as any other kind of bigotry, because it uses those surface characteristics as an inherent denial of individuality. </p>
<p>Flip things around for a moment: Does Thomas Sowell have any right to have his comments on race relations in America &#8212; and, in particular, relations among social strata disproportionately composed of racial elements (e.g., the urban poor) &#8212; taken seriously by anyone <i>just because he is melaninically enhanced</i>? Or, as a closer question, how about multimillionaire Al Sharpton, who at least maintains some personal contact with the urban poor who share his ethnicity? I personally think the answer to both questions is &#8220;no,&#8221; but I base that on the cognitive dissonance between what these two individuals say and do, on the one hand, and reputable scholarship on those issues on the other.</p>
<p>In short, visible authenticity is just a means of cavalierly dismissing competitors in the current buyer&#8217;s market of publishing and public discourse. There are more authors and would-be pundits than our current communications infrastructure can distribute to their satisfaction (and I don&#8217;t just mean the editorial process, either&#8230;). Whether proponents of visible authenticity admit it to themselves or not, the meme fulfills the same function as any other mindless means of excluding potential competitors from the market, and doesn&#8217;t require awareness of its &#8220;rational actor&#8221; foundations to work that way.</p>
<p>&lt;sarcasm&gt; Besides &#8212; these days, is there a difference between &#8220;John Updike&#8221; (IMNSHO, one of the most overrated of the current generation of American <i>auteurs blanc-gris</i>) and &#8220;unpublished&#8221;? &lt;/sarcasm&gt;</p>
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