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	<title>Comments on: [links] Link salad sneers at style books</title>
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	<link>http://www.jlake.com/2010/05/11/links-link-salad-sneers-at-style-books/</link>
	<description>Jay Lake&#039;s Official Web Site</description>
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		<title>By: Issue 19 TOC, and some notes &#124; Crossed Genres</title>
		<link>http://www.jlake.com/2010/05/11/links-link-salad-sneers-at-style-books/comment-page-1/#comment-12658</link>
		<dc:creator>Issue 19 TOC, and some notes &#124; Crossed Genres</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 16:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jlake.com/?p=12132#comment-12658</guid>
		<description>[...] has gotten some nice attention lately. Author Jay Lake recently linked to one of Kay&#8217;s posts, saying &#8220;I am really digging this new-to-me site&#8221;. Author Steven Gould said SiMF [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] has gotten some nice attention lately. Author Jay Lake recently linked to one of Kay&#8217;s posts, saying &#8220;I am really digging this new-to-me site&#8221;. Author Steven Gould said SiMF [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Cora</title>
		<link>http://www.jlake.com/2010/05/11/links-link-salad-sneers-at-style-books/comment-page-1/#comment-12644</link>
		<dc:creator>Cora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 03:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jlake.com/?p=12132#comment-12644</guid>
		<description>I find the whole &quot;Globish&quot; concept incredibly condescending. And speaking as an accidental linguist, I am not surprised that the concept of &quot;Globish&quot; is pushed by a journalist and an IBM manager, neither of whom is a linguist. Because no linguist would ever subscribe to such a stupid concept.

First of all, the English spoken in India or Singapore is not some form of &quot;Globish&quot;, it&#039;s English, albeit an Indian or respectively Singaporean variant. English is one of several official languages in both India and Singapore. To claim that the English spoken by people in these countries is not proper English at all is as condescending and frankly incorrect as my old English teacher was when he claimed that American English was not proper English. There are regional differences and varieties within every language, let alone one spoken not just in different countries but on different continents. This does not mean that one variety is superior or somehow more real than the others. Besides, Singaporean English is perfectly comprehensible in spite of some regional specifics.

And the claim that international speakers speak only a simplified form of English &quot;without grammar&quot; is an insult to non-native speakers of English everywhere. Are there a lot of international business people who speak bad English? Of course there are. In my work as a translator I run into those people every day. But McCrumb nonetheless gets the phenomenon completely wrong. People using English mainly for business interactions do not have a rudimentary vocabulary. Most of the time, they have a highly specified vocabulary tailored to the needs of their profession. I have met non-native speakers of English who could explain the functions of some very complicated machinery in detail but did not know such common words as &quot;fairy&quot; or &quot;squirrel&quot;, because they did not need those words to do their jobs. As for grammar, it really depends on the grammar instruction a non-native speaker received. Many of them have got a very good handle on grammar, some do not. And considering that particularly Americans are notoriously bad at identifying grammatical phenomenons (e.g. all of that confusion regarding what is and isn&#039;t passive voice - Thank you, Strunk and White), native speakers aren&#039;t necessarily better. They usually have the instincts acquired during language acquisition, but they are often worse at explaining the rules, because they never formally learned them. My 8th grade ESL students are often better at correctly identifying the passive voice than some adult native speakers, including published writers.

Finally, this article is also a slap into the face of all of us non-native speakers who have invested a lot of time into studying the English language in all its varieties and subtleties and - if we are teachers - passing it on to our students. When I teach English, I take great care to teach not just vocabulary and grammar but also the history and culture behind the language. I consider it my job to teach the whole spectrum of English, not just some simplified &quot;Globish&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find the whole &#8220;Globish&#8221; concept incredibly condescending. And speaking as an accidental linguist, I am not surprised that the concept of &#8220;Globish&#8221; is pushed by a journalist and an IBM manager, neither of whom is a linguist. Because no linguist would ever subscribe to such a stupid concept.</p>
<p>First of all, the English spoken in India or Singapore is not some form of &#8220;Globish&#8221;, it&#8217;s English, albeit an Indian or respectively Singaporean variant. English is one of several official languages in both India and Singapore. To claim that the English spoken by people in these countries is not proper English at all is as condescending and frankly incorrect as my old English teacher was when he claimed that American English was not proper English. There are regional differences and varieties within every language, let alone one spoken not just in different countries but on different continents. This does not mean that one variety is superior or somehow more real than the others. Besides, Singaporean English is perfectly comprehensible in spite of some regional specifics.</p>
<p>And the claim that international speakers speak only a simplified form of English &#8220;without grammar&#8221; is an insult to non-native speakers of English everywhere. Are there a lot of international business people who speak bad English? Of course there are. In my work as a translator I run into those people every day. But McCrumb nonetheless gets the phenomenon completely wrong. People using English mainly for business interactions do not have a rudimentary vocabulary. Most of the time, they have a highly specified vocabulary tailored to the needs of their profession. I have met non-native speakers of English who could explain the functions of some very complicated machinery in detail but did not know such common words as &#8220;fairy&#8221; or &#8220;squirrel&#8221;, because they did not need those words to do their jobs. As for grammar, it really depends on the grammar instruction a non-native speaker received. Many of them have got a very good handle on grammar, some do not. And considering that particularly Americans are notoriously bad at identifying grammatical phenomenons (e.g. all of that confusion regarding what is and isn&#8217;t passive voice &#8211; Thank you, Strunk and White), native speakers aren&#8217;t necessarily better. They usually have the instincts acquired during language acquisition, but they are often worse at explaining the rules, because they never formally learned them. My 8th grade ESL students are often better at correctly identifying the passive voice than some adult native speakers, including published writers.</p>
<p>Finally, this article is also a slap into the face of all of us non-native speakers who have invested a lot of time into studying the English language in all its varieties and subtleties and &#8211; if we are teachers &#8211; passing it on to our students. When I teach English, I take great care to teach not just vocabulary and grammar but also the history and culture behind the language. I consider it my job to teach the whole spectrum of English, not just some simplified &#8220;Globish&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention [links] Link salad sneers at style books &#124; jlake.com -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://www.jlake.com/2010/05/11/links-link-salad-sneers-at-style-books/comment-page-1/#comment-12609</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention [links] Link salad sneers at style books &#124; jlake.com -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 May 2010 12:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jlake.com/?p=12132#comment-12609</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jay Lake. Jay Lake said: blog: [links] Link salad sneers at style books http://www.jlake.com/2010/05/11/links-link-salad-sneers-at-style-books/ #fb [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jay Lake. Jay Lake said: blog: [links] Link salad sneers at style books <a href="http://www.jlake.com/2010/05/11/links-link-salad-sneers-at-style-books/" rel="nofollow">http://www.jlake.com/2010/05/11/links-link-salad-sneers-at-style-books/</a> #fb [...]</p>
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